Empowering ASU's Student-Athletes: A Deep Dive with Jean Boyd & Alonzo Jones

Shandra McDonald [00:00:05]:

This is the academic survival podcast, and I'm your host, doctor Shandra McDonald. Statistics show that approximately 40% of students drop out of college every year. In fact, nearly 30% drop out their 1st year. Well, I am on a mission to improve these stats.

Jean Boyd [00:00:34]:

So how do you intentionally challenge those individuals? Well, now we're in an era where your kind of doubling down profit wise on the idea that you're a baller, and you're worth 1,000,000 of dollars, and you're getting that money right now without even being a professional athlete. So why is the school part even necessary? Right?

Shandra McDonald [00:00:58]:

That's Jean Boyd, deputy athletic director at Arizona State University. He's joining me today on the academic survival podcast, and I am so excited. Also joining me is Alonzo Jones, associate athletic director for championship life, also at Arizona State University. Together, we have a great conversation about student athletes, name, image, and likeness, and how Arizona State has created a holistic support system to help student athletes manage the demands of both academics and sports. Jean and Alonzo's commitment to not only athletic success, but also to academic success is leading to high retention rates and high graduation rates for these students. Join me as we talk all about student athletes.

Shandra McDonald [00:01:51]:

Welcome to the academic survival podcast. Today, I have with me Jean Boyd, who is the deputy athletic director for the Arizona State University.

Jean Boyd [00:02:03]:

That's right.

Shandra McDonald [00:02:04]:

I also have with me Alonzo Jones, AJ. And he is the associate athletic director for championship life at the Arizona State University. So welcome to academic survival. I'm so excited to have both of you here.

Alonzo Jones [00:02:21]:

Shandra, thank you for having us.

Jean Boyd [00:02:22]:

Real glad to be here. Really excited. Yes. And Shandra, I'm prob we'll probably go into it, but her and I have a very long history. We went to high school together.

Shandra McDonald [00:02:32]:

Yes.

Jean Boyd [00:02:32]:

A wonderful experience, Dan, and it's incredible to see what you've done with your adult life as I'm still trying to figure mine out.

Alonzo Jones [00:02:42]:

Back in the day.

Shandra McDonald [00:02:43]:

Yes. Jean was there when I officially got baptized, as they say, running the hurdles. So, you're not a true hurdler unless you fall during a race. And he was there when I, when I officially got baptized.

Jean Boyd [00:02:56]:

He has a hurdle. I say my baptism for my very last race in high school, which unfortunately would have qualified me to go to the state meet. But, you know, we all have our highs and lows and we learn from them. It's part of why we're

Shandra McDonald [00:03:10]:

here. Yes. Yes. Alright. So, let's get started here. I want to know a little bit about your journey in terms of how you ended up at Arizona State University in the positions that you're in and what you actually do there.

Jean Boyd [00:03:23]:

AJ, I'll defer to you. Go ahead and start.

Alonzo Jones [00:03:24]:

Yeah. Thank you so much, Shandra. I'm a first-generation kid. My dad was a military guy, but he put he put tremendous value on education. I think in part because what he was not able to accomplish simply for lack of the degree, he was an enlisted guy, achieved the highest rank in the military, but, you know, realized that it wasn't his competency. It was the absence of a credential. So, he put a lot of priority on education for me. And so, it wasn't a matter of if I was going to go to college.

Alonzo Jones [00:03:53]:

It was a question of where. And so, I had some family members out in Arizona. We went and visited a few schools, and we just happened to have some connections here. I was able to connect up with some mentors and some people who really looked out for me right away. And so, ASU was kind of my destiny. And so, I was a undergrad here in 86 through 91. And then my first job was also at ASU in the admissions office, you know, recruiting other first-generation folks. And I had been in higher ed with the exception of 5 years in Texas, always at ASU.

Alonzo Jones [00:04:24]:

And then, I don't know Jean as long as you all know each other, but Jean and I go back probably 30 years or close to 30 years, and we'd always been sort of colleagues in the space of male uplift and development. And about 8 years ago, he invited me to join Sunday World Athletics to play the life skills role, and I jumped at the opportunity. So, ASU was a place for me coming of age culturally, intellectually. My social system is here. This is what I call home. And so, it's an honor to have went here, but also to work here trying to be relevant to the lives of people in front of us.

Shandra McDonald [00:04:59]:

Yes.

Jean Boyd [00:05:00]:

Outstanding, AJ. Thanks. Thank you, Shandra, for having us. You know, it's always interesting when you are connected with people. I'm looking in 2 boxes, and I'm connected with both people for quite some time. And the journey, right, the journey that we have, the pathway, things that we encounter and overcome to be where we are today. But grew up in inner city, south of Los Angeles, Compton, North Long Beach, ultimately, Paramount. And after graduating from Paramount High School, one of the things that we were talking about beforehand didn't have any scholarship opportunities and went to community college.

Jean Boyd [00:05:40]:

It's a pathway to con of continuance of higher education for sure. Spent a year and a half at Cerritos College in Norwalk, California, and then was blessed and fortunate enough to have multiple scholarship opportunities. So, I got to kind of pick and choose what kind of environment I wanted to step into next. And had never really spent any time in Arizona at all. And, you know, to this day, people kind of go, what? You chose Arizona State over Cal Berkeley? And I did based off of a number of variables and factors. But like AJ said, it was a transformative life experience where I came of age as a man, as an intellectual, if I dare call myself that, as a practitioner, you know, and as someone who really wanted to use the idea that sport and education could work together to advance people in life beyond the game, beyond the game of sport, beyond the context of sports, into leadership roles and, you know, essentially in any type of capacity that someone might be interested in. And so that's been that's been the life's work, you know, here at Arizona State, and also through a nonprofit organization that I was a cofounder of with a couple of credible colleagues called Scholar Baller. So here we are today.

Shandra McDonald [00:06:59]:

Yes. And so thankful that you're here. So, I remember when we were in high school, they had lunchtime learners. Remember, where basically, if your grades were not good, then, you know, they didn't want you to get kicked off the team. So, they put a system in place for you to get your grades up, and that system was lunchtime learners. It was, to me, I thought it was always a kind of an embarrassment to end up to end up in lunchtime learners.

Jean Boyd [00:07:23]:

Right.

Shandra McDonald [00:07:23]:

But it served a purpose, and I think I was probably there only once. But I know that once students who are athletes, once they graduate from high school and they are going to college on a scholarship or going maybe not on a scholarship, but basically going there to be an athlete, I want to know what kind of systems are there to support them to make sure that they don't fall through the cracks. Because for them, academically, right, if they are not performing, it's twofold. Right? They're not on the team, and they're losing their opportunity potentially for that education. So what kind of system do you have in place at Arizona State to make sure that students who arrive can actually stay, thrive, and graduate?

Jean Boyd [00:08:04]:

Absolutely. And AJ and I will toggle back and forth in this piece because there's a lot of interchangeable parts to how a university of this size and status and, you know, we're at the highest level of college sport, loosely titled power 5, Pac 12. You know, we, we compete against schools such as Stanford, Cal Berkeley, UCLA, USC, although they have opted out and are going to the big ten here in in about a year and a half. But an institution like this has a responsibility to create a program, create tools and resources in a structured way by which student athletes can be onboarded. And I'll hand back to AJ to talk a little bit about that onboarding process, but then also put into a structured system that, number 1, evaluates who they are as a student. So, there's some there's a process by which and it's scientific. It's been developed and designed with practitioners and academics and psychologists to understand who the student is, you know, what their background is, what are the variables in their life history that has brought them to this point, and what are the so-called strengths and weaknesses. Right? So that's kind of the starting point is understanding some of the unique things about each individual student athlete.

Jean Boyd [00:09:19]:

And then based on that evaluation, there is a structured approach for each individual student athlete as well where there's structured time where they are, you know, that's designed in their schedule for study. There's structured time where they can work 1 on 1 with someone on not only their study skills, but also their time management skills. Right? And you're when you're balancing being a student and an athlete and, in some cases, working or think about situations where someone might already be a parent, it's a juggling act and having, you know, time management skills, organizational skill development, and then the academic support. Each individual situation we look at independently and then create a pathway forward. You know, where if you're a freshman, you're probably going to have a minimum of 8 hours of structure per week that you are accountable for. So, like, if you're not there, the alarm sounds off and the coaching staff is communicated with literally like, Jean's not here, you know? And then, you know, now you're getting text and phone calls. And, you know, if you if you're going too long, someone will come find you. Right? And that's the on top of.

Jean Boyd [00:10:34]:

That's the links that these athletic departments go to, whether you're on scholarship or not, to ensure that, you know, that structure is firm from the from the beginning. AJ, talk a little bit about the accompanying onboarding process that happens as well. Because Shandra, it's more than just academics. As you know, there's, you know, your psyche and your mindset, and we're living in a new era of humanity, you know, post COVID, post George Floyd, for especially, you know, those of us who are black and or African American, however we identify, it looks and feels different. And the technology era as well has created some dynamics that are different from a mental and emotional standpoint for young people. So, AJ, talk about how we speak to that, bringing them all.

Alonzo Jones [00:11:22]:

Yes. It's a great question. You know, if you were to look at institutional datasets and then look at, at least our institution, we're fortunate to often have higher retention and ultimately quicker graduation rates for our student athletes. And it speaks directly to the level of support, which is also interesting that if you have communities of students who are not being retained and graduated at an institution, what models are doing it successfully. And athletic programs, because you have them from literally recruitment through graduation, has found a sweet spot in terms of supporting, students across all backgrounds and life circumstances. And so, if you think about success, it's being supported. Right? Mentored tutoring, but it's also being welcome, embraced, and oriented to what it means to be a student in in this particular place. And so, we have we run 3 orientation programs over the course of a year to align with the cycle of starting both fall, spring, and summer.

Alonzo Jones [00:12:22]:

And in those orientations, a part of it is high fanfare, welcome activities, Embrace, Sun Devil Way, those kinds of activities. But it's introducing them to the resources, to our value system as a department, but also the do's and don'ts of the environment. And it's sort of setting the stage as to what the expectations are, where the opportunities are for co-curricular experiences, which is the life skill side of the house, how they'll be supported, academic integrity, all the kinds of things that you need to understand being in a new place, such as, as a university is this. And we talk about coping dynamics for the freshmen. We'll do some tutoring workshops. We'll do some writing dynamics, listening skills, time management, those kinds of things. And then we also realize that the collegiate experience is more than just sport in the classroom. So, we have a host of co-curricular activities that we share with them that are for their own edification and benefit.

Alonzo Jones [00:13:15]:

You know, it could be around finances, social media rep representation, cultural communities, celebrations, those kinds of things, as well as a lot in the name, image, and likeness space, budgeting, taxes, credit. And then we have a pretty aggressive career readiness program, particularly for our upperclassmen. So, within an intimate setting, you have roughly about 650 student athletes being supported, you know, with a couple of a 100 staff, but with a high concentration of academic support to ensure that they're not falling through the cracks. And we have the benefit of accountability factors as Jean talked about. Yeah. So, if you look at, if you look at assessment, high support, high welcome, continuous engagement, day to day monitoring, that has proven to be successful and something that, you know, it would take investment, but could be replicated across other departments, assuming they had a cohort capacity to lock their arms around a group of students.

Shandra McDonald [00:14:10]:

Wow. That's awesome. I like and I noticed first when Jean said it, I like that you that they're referred to as student athletes.

Jean Boyd [00:14:19]:

Mhmm.

Shandra McDonald [00:14:19]:

Like when I was in high school, I thought of myself as an athlete. And obviously I was a student, but I like the intentionality of, like, they're in this college space, but, like, let's not forget why you're here. You are a student. You can't just come and do the sports part. Right? You can't just come and be the athlete. You have to be a student athlete. Are you finding that that you are successfully transitioning the mindset to where they, you know coming out of high school, I would imagine that many of them saw their identity mostly as athlete. So, you know, are you are you successful in transforming their mindset in terms of recognizing that, you know, this this particular situation, you're a student, but you're a student athlete?

Jean Boyd [00:15:04]:

Sean, this is that's an ever evolving Mhmm. Competition, proposition, if you will, for these institutions. I intentionally identified that we're at a certain level of college athletics. And the reason that I did is the student athlete experience, the caliber of student athlete is Olympian in many cases. Potential professional athlete in a lot of cases. And in that realm, in the era that college athletics is transforming into, Alonzo mentioned name, image, and likeness. The idea that you can profit. This is only you know, it's less than 2 years old.

Jean Boyd [00:15:43]:

This legislation that allows you to profit off of your name on the back of your jersey, you know, your number, your image, a picture of you, you know, your likeness. That is even more creating more complex dynamics around this identity association. Right? So, you know, if we think about the spaces that, you know, we all probably collectively grew up in, primarily my minority. Sean, do you think about a lot of the let's just take the men, the African American men that we went to high school with. You know, there's a book called Darwin's Athletes that says that in a lot of black communities for males, there are three ways out or there are three ways towards success would be athletics Mhmm. Or entertainment, rapping or singing or acting. Right? Entertainment or the dope game. Like, those are the 3 primarily identified ways intrinsically even in some of those communities.

Jean Boyd [00:16:45]:

They don't see these other, you know, options. They, they, they, they don't see a doctor in their household. They don't see a teacher per se in their home front. They go to a school where there's a teacher. Right? So, this over identification with, you know, being an athlete, for example, has always been something that we've had to work hard and intentionally, especially amongst our black male student athletes to really kind of jar them and shake them through the door. Like, hey, man. The percentages of someone who actually goes on and does that is so minute that if you're not preparing to be something else, you're wasting time, money, energy, you know, and maybe a better life for you and your family by not taking advantage of this. That that's where this idea of being a scholar and a baller, Scholar Baller started couple decades ago.

Jean Boyd [00:17:37]:

And then so how do you intentionally challenge those individuals? Well, now we're in an era where you're kind of doubling down profit wise on the idea that you're a baller and you're worth 1,000,000 of dollars. And you're getting that money right now without even being a professional athlete. So why is the school part even necessary? Right? AJ, so just talk a little bit about the identity development piece. Interesting. I've never heard another person outside of AJ use a certain language that that that you're using, Shandra, in your work that AJ uses all the time? So, you could talk about newfound freedom as part of that, AJ.

Alonzo Jones [00:18:20]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, basically, when you're working with the age set, you know, 18 years old just to use a starting point of traditional college age, You know, all you can do is preview, you know, what they're about to enter into and then repeatedly revisit it. Right? Because they're walking into something, you know, we all at the youthful age have a sense of fearlessness and, you know, a sense of owning the moment and the now. And so, for someone to talk about preparing for when you're 45 years old, there's a there's a little bit of cognitive dissonance. So, we just constantly reference a duality, sort of owning the moment while simultaneously preparing for a future.

Jean Boyd [00:18:58]:

And so

Alonzo Jones [00:18:59]:

one of the one of the things we deal with in orientation is newfound freedoms under this, under this reality. They would have woken up in their parents' house in their familiarity of their home, and then they will go to college and there will be a moment where they will say goodbye to their parents and they'll close their door. And that audio, the click of the door will be also an announcement of newfound independence. Right? Yes. And so, they went from high familiarity, like I always like to joke when they say, they walk up to the refrigerator and they say, what can I take out? Right? Because it's been provided for them. But in the moment of moving on to their own, they then have to psychologically shift from what's in it to what do I need to put in it. Right? It's a it's an it's a it's a it's a date of independence. So, the day they leave their parents' house, it is a literal date of independence.

Alonzo Jones [00:19:48]:

Mhmm. And they're excited to be there. In the case of a student athlete, they have a certain level of fame, localized fame. And they're doing this literally with thousands of other 18 year olds who are just that far away from having left their mom and daddy's house.

Jean Boyd [00:20:03]:

Mhmm.

Alonzo Jones [00:20:03]:

And we then talk about the environment. Right? Newfound freedom. You're excited to be there. Your age set is you know, it has certain physicality to it. Right? Certain things on its mind, and you're no longer under the observant watchful eye of parents. And in the environment, as is consistent with any collegiate environment, is all the range of alcohol, narcotics, substances, whatever the case may be, sex is in the environment. We got to make decisions at midnight. And so, we just candidly talk about the space, who they are in it, and how to manage it.

Alonzo Jones [00:20:34]:

And this is what we basically say. If you if you replicate habits and patterns that got you here, bring that with you, decide what it is you don't want to bring from high school, discard that, and decide what you want to then add. Right?

Jean Boyd [00:20:48]:

Mhmm.

Alonzo Jones [00:20:48]:

Replicate patterns and behaviors that got you here, discard something that have no longer value to you, and what do you want to add? And then also simultaneously acknowledge the fact that you're coming from a high-profile life, and now you're amongst a peer group who are perhaps anywhere from 2 to 4 years older than you, and you're going to go through an initial transition to where you were big time only a month ago, but now you're at the beginning of this thing. Some of them will come in and compete right away, but all we do is just foreshadow what they're going to experience and revisit and then constantly echo the fact that you're going to be older than you are right now. Which part of you is the guardian or the preparer for the 45-year-old you? And we acknowledge all the identities, giving them proper legitimacy in place, but we ask them to lead in a college environment, which is intellectual to lead with their student self.

Shandra McDonald [00:21:39]:

Yes. That's so good.

Alonzo Jones [00:21:41]:

Would you add anything, Jean?

Jean Boyd [00:21:42]:

No. But that's kind of getting into the matrix. If you were to do a one-minute overview of how you help and Shandra, this is really important because there you know, what we know about human growth development and human development and even mind development. Right? Brain development. Frontal lobe is not fully developed till you're about 25 years old. So, the decision-making component of who you are isn't even fully ready to make good decisions at 18, 17 or whatever the case is. So, you know, there's impulse reaction to things you want to there there's a sense of wanting to belong and be validated. Right? Which can often lead to poor decision making.

Jean Boyd [00:22:23]:

Alonzo tries to frame a matrix of decision making based off of those realities that has been valuable.

Alonzo Jones [00:22:31]:

Yeah. Yeah. It's just a focusing on what I call the warrior class, which is the age of 15 to 26, immediately starting after puberty, where you shift from adolescent mindset into a physically centered mindset, meaning your peer group is perhaps your greatest reference point, is no longer parents. Your reputation is hyper important to you. You're standing among groups. Your capacity to want to prove yourself is urgent in this age set. Sex, physical acknowledgment is heavily on your mind. Reputation and violence are in your toolkit.

Alonzo Jones [00:23:04]:

Right? Mhmm. That's immediately from 15 to 26 followed by emotionalism, intellectualism, and then the last phase of human psychological development, spirituality because you realize you're going to transition. So, the first thing we talk about is that physically, you are in a I mean, literally, you're in your physical stage, but you're in an intellectual environment. Right? So, we talk about the incongruency there. And we talk about how to manage this so then we break down identities. And the identities are based upon your house party self, which is lit, your spot self, which is chill, your student self, your classroom, which is student, your field pool sport, whatever, which is athlete, and then job, which is employee. And we acknowledge that these are just 5 different identities, all have legitimacy based upon where you're at or who you're around. And then we walk it down state of mind, formal, informal, what's your intent? The ideal is to put up many different identities and to say all of this can exist in harmony and you can have balance, but which one ought to be, you know, sort of the overarching dominant leader? And we encourage them to let that person be student because student will have given balance and legitimacy to all the other identities versus what inherently happens, not because of deviance or problem thinking, is consistent with the age set, is the age set wants to wants to maximize social opportunities, wants to maximize fun, wants to take risks.

Alonzo Jones [00:24:31]:

Right? Wants to sort of be in the now kind of which is perfectly fine, yet they're in an intellectual environment that's preparing for a future yet to come. So, we then take some time to dissect or to discuss the internal civil war that goes on in the age set between their social self and their student self. And so, a lot of it is just naming it. Right? Mhmm. And so, and then and then and then asking, if all these legit all these identities have legitimacy, does student have legitimacy? Right? It's just asking that profound question. And then you can walk that down in so many different ways. There's ways to talk about, you know, behavior that's represented by litmus. We also talk about behavior that that's sort of consistent with student.

Alonzo Jones [00:25:13]:

We talk about, we acknowledge some of the hyper respect, particularly in black male circles that we put tied to that tied to that that warrior class. So, it's a bouncing off tool to have more narrow conversations across a number of subject matters. But it's just it's just acknowledging they're complex, they're beautiful, but they have to accelerate their maturity in the environment because there's so much so many eyes on them and so much at stake. And so, it's a way of, having a now and future conversation simultaneously.

Shandra McDonald [00:25:46]:

That's so good. That's so good because, you know, if you are not mindful of the specific situation that you're in, then the wrong self can show up. And, like you mentioned about warrior or fighting being in that tool bag, you know, you can be in a situation where, okay, you're at school. Maybe it's a party at school Mhmm. And there's a possible confrontation at school. And it's like, okay, now I'm all 3 because this party is at school and this conflict is approaching me in that school. The one thing that definitely holds true is the physical location. Right? Your physical location is school.

Shandra McDonald [00:26:33]:

So that student still needs to make the decision because that student shouldn't be reaching in and necessarily pulling out. You know, it's time to fight. That has consequences and so forth. Yeah. That is so good. What I like about it is that if they really grasp the fact that there's a situational identity, if they really grasp that, that is a framework that can take them really the rest of their the rest of their life. How they show up in different spaces. I was listening to your TED talk and like right now, I'm a daughter.

Shandra McDonald [00:27:08]:

I am an employee. I am a cousin. Like, I have a lot of different roles, and so I'm caretaker. And then for me, it's that it's, you know, trying to balance the fact that I'm the caretaker, but to her, I'm still daughter. Right?

Jean Boyd [00:27:25]:

Right. Exactly.

Shandra McDonald [00:27:25]:

And so there's that type of balancing that needs to happen. So that's so that framework is not just something that is critical for them to understand. It's a it's a framework that they can literally take with them throughout their life and try to figure out, okay, who's in the driver's seat? Who's driving right now?

Alonzo Jones [00:27:44]:

Right.

Shandra McDonald [00:27:44]:

Oh, good. So good. Can we talk a little bit about the more about the name, identity and likeness? And how are you balancing that as overseers of these precious lives that could sometimes be larger than life, potentially, and you're still trying to run a program. Can you can you talk a little bit about the impact that is having on the student's ability to be successful?

Jean Boyd [00:28:09]:

I'll start with this. When you attach dollar figures to something, it increases in value, especially at the tender age that we're talking about. Right? 18 years old. Like, you know, it's this tangible monetary. So, one of the things that has happened is the expectation that college athletes at this level are walking into is that they're going to make money off their name, image of like and likeness regardless if they do anything or not. You know what I'm saying? So, like Mhmm. It's not like, hey. I'm going to take advantage of this new opportunity to promote my artwork in a way that is attached to my name.

Jean Boyd [00:28:51]:

I'm going to set up a little, you know, 501c3 or or LLC or whatever the case is. They're just going like, where the money at? Like, you know, they want it to be handed. And if someone's very elite in the space, that is happening. Like, there's bidding happening for individuals based off of schools. We came across a website last week, and this is illegal per the NCAA rules, but the website exists and people are participating. Then as a fan of a school let's just say you're a USC fan. You can go in and see a guy, a young man, or a woman for that sake, who is being recruited by that school, and you can put money into a pot that if they choose to go to that school, they get the money. Simply offer the choice, right, of where they're going.

Jean Boyd [00:29:41]:

Right? So, like, it pushes the recruiting agenda because if you get enough fans aware of the site, they start pouring in. And now instead of USC, they want to go to Tennessee because there's, you know, a $100,000 more dollars on the line.

Shandra McDonald [00:29:58]:

A signing bonus.

Jean Boyd [00:30:00]:

Why? Essentially. And decisions, you know, there's all kind of variations of this which are impacting decision making. So, you know, you even have young people who have name and miss likeness is affecting. They're making decisions on going places that are not places that are a good fit for who they are based off of the support that's provided and even the environment. You know what I mean? You got people stepping into spaces where there aren't people that look like them. And they know that they are not going to do well in that environment, but the money is enticing them. So that's the unfortunate part of this name, image, and likeness carousel is that, you know, the overemphasis on quick cash, quick money

Shandra McDonald [00:30:42]:

Yes.

Jean Boyd [00:30:42]:

You know, versus really investing in yourself in an experience that's going to build you up to be able to be able to fish versus being able to have the fish given to you. That's one of the drawbacks and negatives of it. On the on the flip side, there are components of this and student athlete amateurism and all. There are cases that are moving through the courts right now. NIL was, you know, brought on by a case. There was a case where a student was saying, hey. You guys give me awards for my athletic pursuit, but not for my academic pursuit if I do well. So, there was an it's called Austin Case that the plaintiff won couple years ago.

Jean Boyd [00:31:27]:

And so now student athletes can be incentivized to attend the programs that AJ and his colleagues put on, you know, for, you know, a certain amount of money, literally, that is a is, you know, is a good enticement. So, he's seen, you know, his attendance at his events go up, you know, 3, 400 percent Mhmm. Over the course of a year. So that that's a positive piece. That's not NIL, but it's part of the new era of college athletics. Something that came on line more recently. So, these things are, in some cases, beneficial if it's done the right way, but also, you know, can be detrimental in a lot of ways.

Shandra McDonald [00:32:08]:

Yeah. You have that website that you're referring to. You literally are going to have students making decisions absent AJ's framework. Right? They don't they don't necessarily even have the tool yet. They're just thinking about, in some cases, they're sitting in poverty, right? Making a decision, which in that situation sounds like the better choice. To be able to immediately alleviate some degree of pain sounds like a good choice. But in the long run, not necessarily the best choice for you. That's really good.

Shandra McDonald [00:32:44]:

Now, you were saying something about incentivizing them to attend these types of programs. Is this program only available to ASU students? Or can athletes at other institutions? Is there a way for them to at least I don't know. Will you speak to it? Is it offered to outside of ASU?

Alonzo Jones [00:33:06]:

Yeah. I'll address that. So, it's completely voluntary by hostess institution. There's only limits on what it can fund and the amount. And so, it becomes a recruitment dynamic. Right? So, if ASU is not offering it and another institution is, we know we're vulnerable to the families making the decision to your point a little bit earlier. Okay. And so, it's optional to buy in.

Alonzo Jones [00:33:32]:

It's largely tied to, you know, does the institution have the budget or the capacity to fund it. Right? And then you have discretion on whether or not you just exclusively awarded for academic performance, or do you have some combination of cocurricular experiences coupled with academic performances? And then you have some you can develop your own policy internally about, you know, how do you distribute it, transfer students, those kinds of things. So, no, not every institution is doing it. A good percentage are. It's relatively new and recent. And some folks are just giving it away without any kind of criteria tied to it. Other institutions such as ours, we're trying to tie it into high academic performance and co-curricular engagement.

Shandra McDonald [00:34:14]:

That's good. So, what you've seen over the years, what would you say is like the top three things that students struggle with? I shouldn't say students, but the student athlete. What are the what are the top three struggles coming in?

Alonzo Jones [00:34:29]:

I'll say 1 and then Jean can jump in. I would say, I think it has something to do with what Jean alluded to earlier about, you know, you're at this level, you psychologically, and you're not delusional. You're thinking about the pros. And so, in many instances, certainly not all, there's an incongruency there's an incongruency that this is the pathway to the pro to the potential pro space, yet my interest is in the pro opportunity. No problem there. But yet, I have this academic reality that I must contend with. And as I always like to say, it's not that the student doesn't have the capacity to intellectually own the material. There's just an incongruency with what their immediate priority is.

Alonzo Jones [00:35:14]:

And so there in some instances, there has to be some due diligence, some, some extended continuous conversation about just owning the academic experience as a way of continuing the journey. Sometimes you're just managing that versus sort of leaning into the academic experience, gaining what you need to gain from that while simultaneously pursuing your professional aspirations. So, there's sometimes there's just a little bit of incongruency in the student athlete moniker.

Jean Boyd [00:35:44]:

Yeah. Sounded like a like a lot of young people who are transitioning from teen and adolescence into young adulthood and then adulthood. The mental health piece right now, student athlete, nonstudent, you know, of the age group is just real. It's front and center. It's something that, you know, we're much more aware of as a society. Right? Is it a chicken and egg? Is it because of how we've evolved with technology and the isolationism created by technology and the social media platforms and all? Then you go into COVID, which doubles down on all of that. Right? And coming out of that, you know, is that it? Or are we talking about it so much now that everybody expects to be anxious and depressed? You know, like, it's all working together to create that, you know? And the CDC had had a report that they did some research in 21. So, it was certainly in the in the, you know, COVID era, COVID time period about isolationism, anxiety, depression, staggering numbers.

Jean Boyd [00:36:50]:

Females, 57% during the re the research, during the study said that they are, you know, s significantly depressed and or anxious. 30% contemplated or attempted suicide. This is teenage girls. The male numbers were not as high, but certainly way up on a on a trend line, and that has carried over into our space. So, the number one subject matter that our student athletes talk about is mental health. And, you know, how can we support them better in that regard? The days of, you know, hard coaching have had to be modified. I mean, if you're someone who just says do it because I said, and I don't care how you feel or anything, you're not going to last as a coach anymore. And this makes it seriously.

Jean Boyd [00:37:38]:

And we've seen people washing out and stepping out because they don't know how to, you know, bridge the gap. There is definitely a gap generationally right now and, you know, resiliency and some other things doesn't mean anybody's better than me, than another. It just means that we've got to figure out how to work together to support ourselves collectively as humanity, you know, and through the collegiate space in particular, which is supposed to be training us to be leaders. Right? Mhmm. We have to figure out how to bridge that gap. And it's not young people younger people's responsibility or college students' responsibility versus the faculty or the staff. It's all of our responsibility. But that that mental health component is front and center.

Jean Boyd [00:38:23]:

And then the third one, I would say, is just which is an age-old challenge is just balancing all the things on the plate. You know? Maybe in even the undertone of this, you know, anxiety and so forth, like balancing time, balancing your attention. You know, you got you got a girlfriend or a boyfriend. You thought he or she was the one, and they were not the one at all. And everybody else could see it, but you couldn't. But now you're heartbroken. Right? You got to balance your emotions and still stay on task. All those kinds of things.

Shandra McDonald [00:38:57]:

Let me tell you, like, heartbreak in college is not easy as trying to study with all that emotion. Yeah. That's yep. Yep. So, I read an article not long ago and it was a mental health article regarding college students. And the statement that I took away from that article is the difference between high school senior and a college freshman is 3 months. Mhmm. That's it.

Shandra McDonald [00:39:27]:

3 months. And yet we want to treat them as older adults, and they've got it all together. And we're now expecting you to make quality life decisions. Just 3 months prior, you were in high school, and nobody was expecting that of you.

Jean Boyd [00:39:42]:

I would add a complexity to that. Both in college life, but also in the student athlete experience, a lot more individuals are graduating early and going to college early. That's certainly happening in the college student athlete experience. So now you got actually subtract months. Right? You you're supposed to be in your senior high school year working towards graduation and the prom and all that. Now you started college. That's happening at a much higher level now. And then you also have individuals who are, you know, going into summer bridge programs or bridge programs or things like that.

Jean Boyd [00:40:18]:

But like that, that time in between is has, you know, dissipated for someone else. So, it's even more amplified for someone like you're walking out of the door of a high school class right into a college classroom dormitory environment. Right?

Shandra McDonald [00:40:32]:

Mhmm. Yeah.

Alonzo Jones [00:40:34]:

Yeah. And it's intensified by the independence factor. Right? It's one thing to gain new experiences, but almost everything becomes rearranged. Right? They literally are physically in a in a in a in a new place, both literally, but also psychologically from the absence of the parent. And they're also then contending with 18 being a so-called age of constitutional independence. Right?

Jean Boyd [00:40:56]:

Mhmm.

Alonzo Jones [00:40:57]:

And then depending on their financial resources, they're beginning to feel the pressure of economics. So, all of this is just collapsed, right, within literally say 3 months later. Right?

Shandra McDonald [00:41:07]:

Yeah.

Alonzo Jones [00:41:08]:

It but it's it it's the phenomena of the freshman year. And the institution that can name these things, wrap around them, touch them often, it has greater success of that freshman or 1st year student being successful. That's the uniqueness of collegiate athletics, the level of touch we have versus a traditional non-student athlete, especially at larger institutions. You have to be highly intentional about supporting them in the transition.

Shandra McDonald [00:41:33]:

Well, this has been such a good conversation. I'm so glad you joined me today. I am going to get ready to close this out, but I want to ask you both of you a final question, and that is, what gives you hope today in this space, in the student athlete space and in the athletic programs that you're in? What gives you hope?

Jean Boyd [00:41:56]:

I was hoping that was coming because we we're talking about a lot of the challenges. Right? Yeah. I mean, you know, the human species is dynamic. It's ever evolving, constantly growing. You know, one thing we didn't talk about that's scary to a lot of people, but will be helpful for a lot of others is, like, the artificial intelligence Mhmm. Is that's evolving, you know, under our feet. I think that the more that we can challenge ourselves to look at what's possible, to look at all the resources like, we've got unlimited resources right now, unlike any time on this planet in history. You know, if you take an optimistic viewpoint and think about all the things that we can do, what can we do together? What can we do even individually if we have a positive mindset and, you know, embrace the moment that we're in versus, you know, be worried about all the things that that is going on around us.

Jean Boyd [00:43:02]:

Right? Now how do you how do you get people to do that is a different question. But I'm very hopeful that we have, you know, things at our disposal that we've never had in the history of man or woman kind on this planet that with some instruction, which is key, with some guidance, you know, with some framing, can continue to create unpreviously perceived realities for us in terms of what we can do together as a society, you know, in this country and in this world. And that's the other piece. You know? We have access to people in other countries and what their educational realities are and so forth. And so, we compare and partner with people as the adults or as, you know, the leaders in these spaces to create new opportunities for the young people that we aim to serve. So that that gives me a lot of

Shandra McDonald [00:43:56]:

hope. That's great.

Alonzo Jones [00:43:57]:

Yeah. I mean, you know, Jean and I both will share an optimism very, very well said. I would say I'm hopeful because we are a current measurement of generationally work that preceded us. We are further ahead as an athlete community, cultural communities on many different variables than, the ones our parents had to deal with. So, I'd like to acknowledge the ancestors and the elders for a current time that we live in. I'm also hopeful kind of going forward, the level of student athlete activism who are rejecting historical norms of just dribble and play. Right? They're leveraging their popularity, their sense of, quasi fame, and they're speaking to certain kind of commitments and ideals, and they're being a bit more emboldened. Right? Historically, that had been narrowed to a few who were taking high risk.

Alonzo Jones [00:44:50]:

Now you have more with low risk, lower risk, and who are leveraging, you know, their athlete status in different kind of ways. And then I'm very hopeful is that you have athletes who are playing at a professional level who comparatively are in an economic reality that their predecessors were not in, and they're evolving their philanthropy beyond just foundations. And they're beginning to fund some things that might have some structural change. As I say this, completely not relevant to the show, maybe a professional athlete is listening in. I'm hopeful that they will give their money to something that no one knows about so that they can fund ideals absent external critique. To me, I'm hopeful that the student athlete, like Dick Gregory says, a community of people cannot be saved by entertainment and educate and entertainers and athletes. I'm like, I understand that coming from Dick Gregory's world. But if you take a person who's who feels a sense of connection to community and different kind of moves, and they have resources that are potentially generational in their wealth ac acumen, and they have a kind of fortitude to fund think tanks and certain ideals without having to suffer pub public escapement and cancelization.

Alonzo Jones [00:46:07]:

I'm hopeful, baby. I'm hopeful.

Shandra McDonald [00:46:10]:

I love it. I love it. 1 of my, colleague of mine at one point were like, we should start a think tank. So, I love it. I love it. I love it.

Alonzo Jones [00:46:20]:

See, but it's interesting there. That has been historically how things move. Right? You hear this announcement or this new legislation, but it's been thought about and strategized for a long period of time. And whatever your core issue is, it typically is preceded by thinking. Right, but then also by financing. Historically, we've not been able to finance ideas. We can think about them and talk about them, but we've not been we've not been able to move in a certain kind of quietness that's necessary for projected success. We've always had to do it in public spaces.

Alonzo Jones [00:46:54]:

And as soon as you make something public, an announcement is as good as dead in the water.

Shandra McDonald [00:46:58]:

Yeah. Alright. Well, that concludes our episode of academic survival. Thank you so much to AJ and JB for joining me. And hopefully, I'll be able to talk to you again.

Jean Boyd [00:47:12]:

Shout out

Alonzo Jones [00:47:12]:

to you. So much, hon. We truly appreciate it.

Jean Boyd [00:47:14]:

And thank you. Thank you for what you're doing. The subject matter in and of itself, the title, and, already seeing some of the different iterations of humanity that you have. You're talking to students too, you know, and they're talking firsthand of what they're dealing with, experts, etcetera. So, thanks for having the courage and the wherewithal to make this available.

Shandra McDonald [00:47:36]:

Alright.

Alonzo Jones [00:47:37]:

Thank you, doc. Appreciate you.

Shandra McDonald [00:47:38]:

Thank you.

Shandra McDonald [00:47:45]:

That's it for today on academic survival. If you want to share your story on how you survived your freshman year of college, you can reach me at info@Shandralmcdonald.com. We'll be back next week with more ways to survive your academic journey. Until then, happy studying.